MINI EPISODE: She Lets Joy Be Her Compass (with Bailey Buckles)

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Introduction – 0:00

 

BLAIR HODGES: Welcome to Relationscapes. This is a mini episode of the podcast where we map out the terrain of human identity and connection: what makes us who we are, and how can we improve our relationships personally and collectively? I'm Blair Hodges, an independent journalist in Salt Lake City, and I want to say thanks for exploring with me.  

I can't remember exactly when, but a while ago the Instagram algorithm served me up a post by a creator I hadn't seen before. Her name is Bailey Buckles. I was immediately captivated, because her posts combine stunning outdoor views with compelling personal stories about what it's like to be a trans woman of color in the United States right now.

With trans rights under attack, it is absolutely crucial that more of us start listening to trans voices. They can help lead us through the current mess because they've been fighting the battle long before a lot of cisgender people like me were even aware it was being waged.  

Without further ado, let's go. 

 

The Bailey Buckles Bucket List – 01:28

 

BLAIR HODGES: Bailey Buckles, welcome to Relationscapes.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Thank you, Blair. It's great to meet you in person—or I guess digitally.

BLAIR HODGES: Yeah, it's great to meet you digitally in person. I've followed your Instagram for quite a while now, and I'm thrilled to have you on. I want to start kind of—like, not to be too dramatic at the outset—but you almost died, and I want to start there.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Actually, I did. I did have a severe brush with death unexpectedly. I'm an outdoor person. I like to go hiking and exploring—that's just kind of what I do. And then I was just on an everyday hike, Front Range. I live in Colorado Springs—not going anywhere extreme. I went out to North Cheyenne Canyon, a local Front Range hike, and I slipped and fell.

I wasn't vlogging or doing anything outside of just—I was just walking. And I'm a highly accident-prone person, Blair.

BLAIR HODGES: Oh no.

BAILEY BUCKLES: I have been known to fall going up the stairs.

BLAIR HODGES: Haha, falling up.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Yeah, I fall up versus falling down, which most people can't do, but I've mastered that.

BLAIR HODGES: It's a little safer to fall up.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Yeah, well, I also went headfirst through a door one day—fell into a closet door. So, I mean, it's safe-ish. But on the hike I slipped and fell, scraped my knee. That ended up being infected, and it ended up becoming infected with flesh-eating bacteria, necrotizing fasciitis.

So it landed me in the hospital, and they had to do some pretty intense surgery on my leg to remove everything. And yeah, it's been a pretty intense recovery. It's been about five months all in all—maybe four months total—and I'm finally feeling normal.

BLAIR HODGES: While that was happening, you actually thought about death.

BAILEY BUCKLES: I did. It was very real. It was tangible. And because of the infection, I was just in a literal fever dream where everything felt pretty surreal and out of body. I'm just laying in the hospital. It was almost like probably a little over 24 hours after I was admitted that they knew they needed to do surgery, and I was just kind of like—no one knew what exactly was going on.

BLAIR HODGES: Wow.

BAILEY BUCKLES: They didn't know it was flesh-eating bacteria until they were inside my leg.

But I just felt super sick. I called my partner, and I was just—after three days of being horrendously sick, couldn't keep anything down—I was like, I need to go to the hospital. Because I already was—I went to the hospital once—and I was like, I need to go to the hospital now.

And she left work.

BLAIR HODGES: You just knew it. Like, you felt sick enough to—where it was like, whoa, something's really wrong.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Something's really wrong. After I reached out to her, I actually passed out, and she found me passed out at home.

BLAIR HODGES: Whoa.

BAILEY BUCKLES: So definitely—I think there was a gap of, like, had I not hit send, or had I not made the phone call—had I not reached out, I might not be here today, for sure.

BLAIR HODGES: Oh, wow. And you talked about the healing part of it, too. That it required a lot of patience, you said.

BAILEY BUCKLES: It required a level of patience that I am not familiar with. Just being an active person, loving to explore the world through the outdoors and through movement—movement is what balances me as a person. I do a lot of writing, and I do a lot of moving.

So having to just sit was really hard, especially with the weight of the world and what we've been seeing throughout the country. I had to sit in it. I couldn't distract myself with movement. I couldn't process it how I normally would. I was just stuck in pain—physical pain and emotional pain—not knowing what to do with it.

And it was kind of scary because it's not a state of mind that a lot of us are in, where we're confronted with physical and emotional pain without being able to have an outlet.

BLAIR HODGES: Many of the trans people I've talked to, with everything going on right now, talk about not being able to visualize a future as they were growing up. And maybe you bring something different to this story, where you had always carried a quiet assumption—you say—that there would always be more of life.

Your biggest dreams could wait. Adventures were down the road. Difficult decisions could wait. The future was generous—that's the phrase you use. That differs from a lot of the trans folks I talk with who grew up not seeing other trans people and maybe not envisioning a future for themselves. But you did.

And then this came along and pulled that rug out from under you.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Yeah, I did. I think the conversations I was having internally about death, about not being here, were truly most felt after the hospitalization, when I'm just sitting in this experience because the recovery from the surgery itself was super painful. Just without going into all of it—I'm sure listeners can use their imagination here with an exploratory leg surgery—but in just the aftereffects, knowing that we're waiting to see if this infection really spread further than what we know.

And I, throughout life, throughout my transition, I really didn't think the future was super—maybe attainable or bright. I just had things to look forward to and just knew I could wait. I had so much. And I've had so much fun living in the moment of just really—when I came out—and after a couple years, actually after I came out, just of having really huge emotional trauma, losing close friends, losing family, losing work—I was fired from work—and there was just a lot of identity crises that were outside of my trans identity, that were influenced by coming out as trans.

But I was just so enthralled to be moving through the world as me, giving myself to those that wanted me as me, but also just putting myself out there in the world—through hikes, through conversations with strangers, through new venues of work. I found joy in that. And it just seemed like tomorrow was just gonna always be there. It was dark—we're seeing anti-trans policies on the rise, I know how violent the world can be—but it just seemed like it was there.

Like, I could not take things as seriously because, well, tomorrow's another day.

BLAIR HODGES: You could hit the trail too. Like, you can kind of spend a little time out of it.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Definitely.

BLAIR HODGES: But then that was gone. Wow.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Gone in an instant. So now I'm more aware that tomorrow's definitely not promised or guaranteed. So what can I do today that keeps me fulfilled, that lets me know that I gave it my all, even when I don't want to?

BLAIR HODGES: You talk about the idea of a bucket list feeling dramatic to you before this all happened, but now it just feels practical.

BAILEY BUCKLES: It feels so practical. It's just kind of like, oh, you know what? I really want to—I want to see and experience the world. I do. I think a lot of us feel that way. It's like, I want to climb tall mountains. I want to go to national parks and experience the beauty there and sit in that sort of serene environment.

I want to travel, I want to meet people. I want to have these conversations like we're having. And it feels silly to sit and sleep on it and not do it.

 

Is This New, or Just Newly Felt? – 09:04

BLAIR HODGES: And you write as well, and you're an excellent writer. A couple weeks ago, you put out an essay on Substack called "Is This New or Just Newly Felt?" And I actually thought it would be really great to have you read the piece, and then we'll kind of unpack it together. This is Bailey Buckles reading “Is This New, or Just Newly Felt.”

BAILEY BUCKLES: I have lived inside this atmosphere for most of my life. As the child of immigrants, I learned early that safety could feel provisional. That belonging could be granted and revoked depending on who was watching, or what mood the system seemed to be in that day. You learn to be careful without ever being taught the word careful. You learn that compliance does not guarantee protection.

As a trans woman, that awareness never left. It just changed shape.

Moving through the world like this means you are always calculating. Where you are. Who is nearby. How much of yourself is safe to show. You learn when to soften yourself and when to disappear. You learn that fear does not always announce itself loudly. Sometimes it feels like preparation.

For decades, Black, Brown and Indigenous communities have lived with the reality that violence by the state can arrive suddenly and without consequence. Trans women, especially Black and Brown trans women, have watched friends slip from public memory almost as quickly as their lives were taken. These experiences are not the same, but they are connected. They exist within the same conditions.

What many people are feeling right now is not new. It is newly visible.

There is a difference between discovering something and inheriting it. For some, moments like this disrupt assumptions they were able to hold before. For others, they confirm what has always been known, that certain lives are treated as threats long before they are treated as human.

I don’t experience this as an abstract political debate. I experience it as a lived tension. As the knowledge that misunderstandings escalate differently depending on who you are. That proximity to authority does not equal safety. That being lawful, compliant, or well-intentioned has never been a guarantee.

The system does not behave randomly. It produces familiar outcomes, shaped by race, gender, immigration status, and who is granted the benefit of the doubt. When those outcomes repeat, it becomes harder to call them isolated.

I am angry. I am tired. I am also unsurprised, and I wish that surprised me more.

BLAIR HODGES: That's Bailey Buckles reading a piece from her Substack In Bloom, Still. The piece was called “Is This New or Just Newly Felt?”  

 

Child of Immigrants – 12:07

 

BLAIR HODGES: There's a lot packed into such a short and beautiful essay, Bailey. Let's start with being the child of immigrants. Tell me about that part of your life.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Definitely. So, my mom is from Vietnam, and my dad is from the Dominican Republic. They were both immigrants who came to the country. My dad served in the Air Force—he was an Air Force captain. My mom immigrated from Vietnam when she was a teenager during the Vietnam War. Her childhood memories of Vietnam are surrounded by memories of war.

When she came to America, she became a small business owner. She was almost this local celebrity business owner where I grew up. And my dad—I just looked up to him for everything he stood for as a dad. He was a captain in the Air Force that I just idolized and saw strength in.

And growing up, we were living the American dream as seen through the immigrant eyes of my parents, with the knowledge of—we're first-generation Americans.

BLAIR HODGES: How are they with your transition?

BAILEY BUCKLES: I would say they're super supportive now, and they were super supportive when I came out. But there was not necessarily, like, a learning—there was just—it just took time. It took time for us to heal our relationship and grow together. They had notions of who I would be and who I would grow up to be.

I made it very clear throughout being a teenager that their expectations for how they saw me were probably going to be very different from how I am as a person, even prior to coming out. So what I love about my parents—and what also has been challenging—is that they've accepted me ever since I came out.

But we did have to heal our tension—points of just me not being, I guess, like, so withdrawn from them. I really made it a point to distance myself from my parents, I would say, from senior year of high school to my early 20s, because I felt they wouldn't accept me. So there was just this block of years of, like, we have some critical years where we haven't had a bond.

BLAIR HODGES: Yeah.

BAILEY BUCKLES: But what I love about them is that they were committed with me of, let's really grow this parent-child relationship together. Let's be the family we always have said we are. And to me, that was beautiful.

BLAIR HODGES: How much of that was about being trans, and how much of that was about being the child of immigrants, which can also carry its own difficulties? You're sort of growing up Americanized—a quite different culture from both your parents, who also grew up with somewhat different cultures as well. So there's, like, three cultures being mixed into the household, and you're dealing with, you know, coming out with your gender identity.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Yeah, it's a lot. Culturally, trans identity—not very well accepted from probably where my parents grew up and not very known at the time. When I came out, there really wasn't a lot of language on trans identity, on gender expression. It was a taboo sort of thing to say. It was a taboo way to come out.

 

Coming Out – 15:28

 

BAILEY BUCKLES: I came out in 2013. So, yeah, it was right before we really started seeing more language being developed and talked about and discussed. Social media wasn't what it is now. So even for me to understand and have the language to come out the way that I did, there wasn't much of that.

I had a great gender therapist that helped me understand my identity from pretty early on. So I reached out to a gender therapist when I knew I was coming out, when I knew I was in a transition.

BLAIR HODGES: Did you know other trans people at the time?

BAILEY BUCKLES: I didn't. The only trans people I knew of were Laverne Cox, Janet Mock, and just through books and media—through what I was seeing on YouTube. YouTube was, and has always been, just a great source to find information.

So I knew that from probably when I was, like, 18. Okay, there's language. Like, I know there are trans women out there. I grappled with that for several years because it just seemed like it wasn't anything that I could do. Like, that's cool—I'm seeing folks online, being visible, being themselves—but I don't think it's for me. I don't think I'll be supported by my family. I don't think my friends will see and accept me for coming out.

So I grappled with that for a long time. And it really wasn't until a lot of very dark times in my life—feeling just the lowest of the low, hospitalization from suicide attempts, and just drug abuse, alcohol abuse—it was just a decision that I made one day after a huge bender where the goal was to end my life. It was. I became fascinated by that Nicolas Cage movie—I think it was Leaving Las Vegas—where the goal is to drink yourself to death? I'll be honest, I never even saw the movie! [laughter] I heard the premise, and I was like, that sounds great. He's having a fun time! This character's having a great time to their end.

Maybe I should actually watch that movie because I don't know if we need to remove this part, but I'm like, I have no idea. That's just what I hung on to.

BLAIR HODGES: Wow.

BAILEY BUCKLES: And I woke up the next day or so in the haze, and decided I still have more to give. So I researched therapists that I could talk to around being transgender, and I found out that one of the country's most prominent gender therapists at the time lived in Colorado Springs.

So I reached out to them, scheduled an appointment, and fast forward many years, and here I am.

BLAIR HODGES: I did not know that part of the story. That's incredible.

So you're here, and you stayed, and you've made a life of it—and then you almost died—but you're still here, which is amazing.

 

The Dangers of Being Black, Brown, or Indigenous – 18:31

BLAIR HODGES: I also wanted to ask from that piece where you talk about how Black, Brown, and Indigenous communities have lived with the reality of violence by the state for a really long time, and how the trans experience can be that way. The numbers show that Black and Brown trans women are at greater risk. So you land in a spot that's especially dangerous.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Yep, definitely. So when I wrote this piece, “Is This New or Newly Felt,” it was right after—or right during—when everything was happening in Minneapolis. And so much was coming up for me again, almost like I really wasn't walking out the time again. I was just sitting in this reality, this horror reality that we're living in.

And I'm seeing more folks starting to say, “Hey, violence by the state is happening. It's happening to us.” And the conversations I was hearing were acting like this was new. And for me, where I sit, it wasn't new. It's just now—this level of violence, this level of un-aliving folks on the street—now it's impacting on a greater scale because it's being caught on phones. There's more focus on it.

And what's really happening is that year after year, data from the Human Rights Campaign shows that people most impacted by anti-trans violence are Black and Brown trans women, especially Black trans women, who make up the majority of those we lose in many, many years.

It's not random, it's not evenly spread. It reflects deeper patterns of racism, transphobia, systemic neglect. So when I was writing my thoughts and feelings, the thing that came up to me is, if we're going to talk about this honestly, we have to name all of those who are at risk the most—the marginalized community.

We have to get it outside of just one isolated event and start talking more openly about the level of violence and the most marginalized who are feeling it.

 

Double Life – 21:03

 

BLAIR HODGES: And as you're doing that, you're also living day-to-day life. Like, you're waking up and eating breakfast, and maybe you're watching a show, and you're going on a hike, and you're recovering from a really scary health episode, and you're writing, and you're hanging out. You're going on TikTok or Instagram, and—

Your whole life is unfolding while all this is happening. And for me, as a white guy growing up—a cisgender, heterosexual guy—I haven't really experienced a real double life the way that I do now. When I think about everything that's going on politically, that scares me. I'm the parent of a trans kid, and everything's so much more real to me.

But I still have to get up and make breakfast and go to my day job and pick the kids up from this place or all this. How are you negotiating the surrealness of, kind of—like—and maybe you have for a lot longer than I have—how are you navigating having just a regular, everyday life while the bigger picture seems maybe scarier than ever?

BAILEY BUCKLES: Ooh, that's—that's the question right there. That is—I don't even guess I know how I'm properly—how I am navigating, Blair, in full transparency.

I lose so much sleep just with the thoughts of impending harm. We're seeing this huge rise of anti-trans policy just throughout the country. We're hearing from politicians: “Round up the trans community, lock them up.”

So there's these thoughts that I have of, like, one day, is someone going to come barging down, knocking down my door and putting me in an encampment—putting me and my community?

BLAIR HODGES: Yeah. Are you, like, on a list someplace?

BAILEY BUCKLES: Yeah. So the fear is there. It's louder than it ever has been. And maybe this is just growing up and being Brown in America. I am no stranger to having to move with those thoughts, knowing that harm can come for any unexplained, unreasonable reason.

Harm can come my way before I transitioned and especially after I transitioned. Walking and moving with that, living with that, growing up with that—it's shaped me. It shaped those in my community.

Moving through the world comes with this awareness that harm can come our way. And is that right? Absolutely not. Is that the reality? It is.

So now that it's louder, my anxiety is a lot louder. My anxiety is a lot higher. The fears are becoming more tangible. We're seeing transgenocide happening. And now the greater question I always ask folks is just, are we waiting until we're locked up, until we're seeing our trans neighbors locked up before we start addressing what we're seeing?

Or do we start taking action now, before it gets to that point? Before the violence becomes something that is as widely seen as the lives lost in Minneapolis? Is that what it's going to take to address what's happening in the country?

 

Trans Presents, Trans Futures – 24:22

 

BLAIR HODGES: What practical things are you doing when it comes to policy, when it comes to politics as they stand right now? How are you directing your energy? Because sometimes things can feel kind of helpless.

I mean, we all have our vote and all that, but we vote as part of a broader body of people. And it's whether the people who are even voting on our side fully agree with where we're at and are advocates and allies of trans folks—that's an open question sometimes.

So are there practical things politically that you have found helpful to engage in? And if not, I think everybody—we're trying. Everyone's trying to survive the way they do. So as far as your answer is concerned, I'm just interested to know where you're at with it.

BAILEY BUCKLES: For sure, I think that's a great question. And for me, I advocate—and my content shifts toward really just humanizing my trans experience for others. I talk and show a lot about just my everyday trans life to really, again, humanize the trans experience from my perspective—showing just the everyday things to, again, humanize what the trans community goes through.

Yeah, we're not any different from any coworker that you have that's cisgender. We're not different from a classmate. We're not different from who you're seeing and standing side by side in the grocery store. So I just try to create content that educates, promotes joy—because joy is an act of rebellion, especially in these times.

And I really am conscious not to get drawn into debates online. Being openly trans online and creating trans content will always flood anti-trans ghost accounts—nameless accounts that are just there to try to insult and spark division. I do my best to find those comments, block them, delete them, remove them.

There's also just accounts that want to spew hate, that aren't looking to learn and grow. Like, if you're looking to have a discussion—if you don't support trans identity but you're curious to have a conversation—I'm open to have that conversation. But if you're just going to try to be in a debate, like we see happening on YouTube where we have those circle debates—no. I'm not here to debate my existence. I'm here to just show I'm as human as you.

BLAIR HODGES: Your stuff does so well at this. This is why I love following you on Instagram. I love all the—it’s a beautiful page. There's great outdoor stuff. There's you just living life. I think that's right. I think it's frustrating and sad that that's a radical political act, but in the context that we're in, it is—that you're just living your life as a creator.

Online, you're inviting people to see that and inviting people into it. I think trans people are in a small enough minority to where people aren't necessarily going to encounter a trans person every single day, or at least be aware that they are. You know, plenty of people are probably still closeted. But online, I've been able to connect with so many more trans people from so many different walks of life, and I value it so much.

And having my own kid—having their gender experience—and learning that I've been having a gender experience my whole life—holy cow. So I love just getting to know the lives of trans people, and it's helped me see my life in different ways.

So I like that answer because neither of us are running for office. Neither of us—we don't have a phone line straight to a senator or someone who can instantly make a difference for us. But just living life and sharing life is a political act right now, in the best of ways. Just sharing your story and who you are. And I really appreciate that.

I'm so thankful because I recognize—you probably do—you have to deal with that hate and all the crap that comes your way. And, oh, that—it sounds—I'm kind of surprised. I don't see a lot of negative comments on your stuff, but it sounds like it's because you're cleaning those up.

BAILEY BUCKLES: I try. I try to. And yeah—and Blair, I love that you are a proud parent of a trans child. That is just—it’s rare. So I appreciate you for just the dad that you are.

And yeah, to almost circle back to what we were just speaking on—the content that I make and what I'm striving to do is just that. The humanizing experience is important for me. But if the visibility that I'm giving—it would be so much easier just to move through the internet not being an out trans person.

BLAIR HODGES: Right.

BAILEY BUCKLES: But for me, it goes so much deeper. I am a trans adult right now, but at one point, I was a trans child. I wasn't presenting or out as trans, but I knew exactly who I was from a young age.

So all trans adults were formerly trans youth or formerly trans kids. And I could have saved myself from years of emotional pain and trauma had I seen someone who looked like me, who talked like me, who had a trans experience that I could resonate with. My way of life isn't going to match everyone out there.

BLAIR HODGES: Yeah.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Whether you're trans or whether you're not. But someone out there might resonate with living a life outdoors, with the nerd cultures that I'm a part of—Star Wars, Marvel, anime. The way that I celebrate my joy might resonate with someone, and it gives them the tools to start having those conversations with themselves that they can take to a therapist, that they can take to a counselor—that can help them accept themselves and save themselves the pain that I went through.

That's the ultimate goal that motivates me to make content, that motivates me to write. There's a young Bailey out there—there's a young me—that I just want to nurture. And I think if I could talk to my child self, I think she'd be really proud.

I think she'd stand in awe of, “Wow, that's so cool. Like, we have a life.”

 

Courage – 30:53

 

BLAIR HODGES: Yeah!

The other thing I would say, from the parent side of things, is I can kind of—sometimes I can kind of relate to parents who struggle with it. I don't want to just write people off completely who—you know, I mean, we tell a story about who our kids are supposed to be and who they are, and when that story changes, it can be hard.

And I think most parents can relate to that. And not even with gender identity—just any—it's scary to have a kid and to realize that, oh my gosh, they're a whole human being in their own right.

But also, I am so impressed with the courage of people who come out, and the courage of people who decide to stay, or who decide to transition, or decide to live into who they are. And I'm so impressed with the courage of my kid. And I do wonder if that courage scares some parents—if it's scary to see the courage of a child living as who they really are.

And I'm impressed with it. That part doesn't really scare me. That part inspires me and just makes me love them so much more. The amazing courage of being who they are is amazing.

And the same when I talk with trans folks like you, who are paving the way for these kids to see a future. And seeing a future is so important. Your present is another kid's future, and they need to see that. They need to be able to know that their courage can be rewarded and that their courage has a place to continue to grow.

And you're helping that happen. I'm so grateful for that, Bailey.

BAILEY BUCKLES: Love that. That's beautiful.

 

Outro – 32:35

 

BLAIR HODGES: Thanks for checking out this mini episode with Bailey Buckles, I recommend giving her a follow, @bailey_buckles on Instagram, you'll get some absolutely beautiful outdoor scenery, meet some really cute dogs, and Bailey offers great insights about transgender life in America right now. If this is your first time joining us at Relationscapes, welcome! I like to offer a few fellow-traveler episodes from the back catalog that you might want to check out if you enjoyed this one. 

Ben V. Greene, "How To Support Trans Youth."

George M. Johnson, "Recovering Queer Black History for Everybody."

Mates of State provides our theme song. I'm your host, Blair Hodges, an independent journalist in Salt Lake City, and I hope to spend more time with you soon here on Relationscapes.